Assurance And Babies

After our discussion I got to thinking yesterday about my comment on how confusing it is for scripture to present what appears to be two different views on salivation (assurance vs. loosing, once saved always saved vs. loosing, free-will vs. chosen, etc.) How can scripture that was penned under the influence of the Holy Spirit, God's direct revelation to us, have an apparent contradiction when it comes to salvation?

Further, we discussed the whole question of if babies are saved or if people who don't hear about Christ while they live on earth are saved. These are good questions and in some cases require us to go beyond scripture. Buddy pointed to apostolic tradition as part of the body of knowledge when we go to scripture for answers. Who knows, maybe one of the apostles under the influence of the Holy Spirit has answered these questions for us. I would not be surprised to go to some early church writing and find that a definitive age has been stated in the church for when we are accountable for our sin… but then I would not be surprised to find another writing that argued differently.

I asked the question about baby salvation to my Mormon friend and was surprised at his response. He quoted at least 8 different versus within Mormon scripture (not the bible) that totally cleared this up. It gave the age of accountability, what happens to children before the age, after the age, what our responsibility as believers are, etc. Remember that Mormons believe their scripture is in apostolic tradition so it would jive with Buddy's response to look to early apostolic tradition in so much as the Mormons, like the Catholics, believe in ongoing revelation that is to be considered the same body of knowledge that scripture falls in. I commented to Aaron how useful and helpful it would be to have a unified Christian church (like the Mormons) where if we had a question such as this, we had clear revealed scripture that totally cleared it up for us. Remember, the Mormons believe that the prophet can petition God for revealed truth and add it to the canon of scripture.

Ok, enough on how I am somewhat envious of my Mormon friend and his security in Mormon doctrine answering a whole lot of the questions we ask daily of each other. What I want to ask you guys is where the Spirit of Truth is in our discussions and questions? Have we become so formulaic in our thinking that we have pushed the inspiration of the Holy Spirit from our toolbox? Does the scripture not clearly state that God expects us to seek truth, to ask and it will be revealed, that the Spirit will guide us into all understanding and Truth? If so, why are we not praying and seeking the Truth revealed by the Holy Spirit when we have questions like this? Is it fair to say, "God, thinking through salvation for babies is causing more questions than answers. I studied your word and it does not list our a specific verse that helps clear up what happens to babies when they die. Father, I ask you to reveal to me the truth of your word, what is your perfect plan for a child who dies? Give me the truth that I can share with those who have asked me this question. Confirm if you want it to remain a mystery that I will never know."

I must admit, I don't pray this way. I don't even give the Spirit the opportunity to work through my prayer life because I never ask for Him to reveal truth to me when I am confused on scripture passages. One fear is if I am petitioning the Spirit as part of a group, what if we all get different revelations? Do we question God? Do we question the way we pray? Do we start to doubt? Seeking the Spirit seems so subjective, how can we make it more real, more objective perhaps?

- Justified Justin

Some advice for all

In John Bunyan's book, "Prayer", he lists some advice for all of God's people after he finishes the first section, "Praying in the Spirit". They are good and I give them here:

1. Believe that as sure as you are in the way of God, you must meet with temptations.
2. The first day therefore that you enter into Christ's congregation, look for them.
3. When they do come, beg of God to carry you through them.
4. Be jealous of your own heart, that it deceive you not in your evidences for heaven, nor in your walking with God in this world.
5. Take heed of the flatteries of false brethern.
6. Keep in the life and power of truth.
7. Look most at the things that are not seen.
8. Take heed of little sins.
9. Keep the promise warm upon your heart.
10. Renew your acts of faith in the blood of Christ.
11. Consider the work of your generation.
12. Count to run with the foremost therein.

He finishes: Grace be with thee.

Some sound advice. Although unclear, I would bet that the promise we are to keep warm upon our heart is the promise of heaven. You could also say that we need to keep all the promises of God warm upon our hearts. Meditation on the kind promises of God and their fulfillment is something that would profit us all.

While all 12 points of advice are good, I'd like to focus on the last two. We are called to consider the work of our generation. The great work of God is the salvation and the transformation of a people for His very own, who would worship and glorify Him.

Reflecting on God's work in our own generation, what would you use for criteria to determine the foremost? We might be tempted to look at "success" as a criteria. Who has the largest churches? Who has published the most books? Who has the largest following for their TV programs? Who has the most recognized name and face in our media-saturated culture?

Maybe the first 10 items in Bunyan's list will give us a clue. Do you know men and women of God who are keenly aware of the sin in their own heart - especially the "small" ones - and through God's grace are overcomers in their struggles with temptations? Do they look to things that are unseen - the spiritual reality that lies behind the physical world all around us? Do they grip, without fatigue, onto the promises of God and hunger for the promise of heaven?

In recent discussions, I have been made aware of four signs of a repentant believer:

• a desire and love for God
• a desire and love for God's Word
• a desire and love for (and to be with) God's people
• an agony and mourning over sin in one's life because it grieves God's heart

Have you met men and women of faith around you who show these clear signs of the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit in their lives?

Maybe the best advice we could receive is that we need to run with them.

- PuritanTim

Is it OK to complain and question God?

One of the questions we ran out of time to address in our discussion of chapter 8 of "The Shack" is this: Does trusting God to be good mean we shouldn't question Him and want to understand why we or our loved ones suffer? How do trust, relationship and questioning relate to each other?

One of the worship styles that we see in scripture which is totally absent today from Churchland (in the west) is the form of the lament. Here is some information concerning lament lifted from:
http://www.cbn.com/cbnmusic/artists/card_michael.aspx

The first few words heard on Michael Card’s CD The Hidden Face of God extend an invitation to a very specific group of listeners– “If you are wounded…” Because after 25 years of composing and singing legendary songs, writing award-winning books, hosting his own radio talk shows, and ministering in churches worldwide, Michael believes he has finally recognized what is lacking in the life of the average Christian today – lamenting.

“Our theology tells us that if we complain to God, we’re being disrespectful,” says Michael. “But at least 80 of the Psalms are actually Laments. It has become a lost language to our culture, yet almost every major Biblical character recorded a lament. There must be a reason for that.”

So what is lamenting? Webster says to lament is to “mourn aloud; to express sorrow or regret; cry out in grief; complain.” Michael says lamenting is ultimately a place of pure worship.

In The Hidden Face of God, Michael discovers that place of praise and worship through tearful, sometimes tragic, lyrics. “Every lament in the Bible, with the exception of Psalm 88, ends in praise,” Michael continues. “The answer to all our laments is seeing the face of God. Job wasn’t going to stop complaining until God came down and spoke to him. And when God finally did that – even though He didn’t bother to explain to Job why his sufferings were taking place – His presence was enough to make Job’s questions go away.”

Is our God, the God of the scriptures, big enough to handle our rants and rages - beating our fists on His chest - as long as in the end we turn towards Him and not away from Him? Should we discipline ourselves to show nothing but stoic trust, and, like good Buddhists, seek to remove all desires (and emotions) from our lives?

Are we showing distrust in His goodness or can we find an appropriate release of our sorrow, grief and emotions? Can we pour them out to the One who has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows (Isaiah 53:4a), who is described as "a man of sorrow and acquainted with grief", who claims that His yoke is easy and His burden light (Matthew 11:30) as He walks along side of us? He says that he will not snap off the bruised reed or snuff out the smoldering wick (Isaiah 42:3, Matthew 12:20)

With such a patient, kind and embracing God, maybe it isn't surprising that 79/80 of the Psalms which are laments turn to God at the end in order to seek His face. Maybe the wonder and awe of such a God causes us to turn to Him, spent from our sorrow and grief. Embraced and accepted, we find our peace, our shalom at rest in His arms.

I have had the opportunity to hold many children in much the same way.

- PuritanTim

A conversation starter

Gentlemen,

While we seem to be simmering on the "Problem of Evil" topic, I'll throw one out there.

What have you found to be the most efficacious method of dealing with sin in your life?

The Puritans would say that no one can deal with their own sin by focusing on it. Concentrating on your sin (with white knuckles) only gives it more power and authority in your life and leaves you frustrated and defeated. The solution, they say, is to find something that is even more appealing to you than the sin and begin to replace/ supplant the "old affection" with the "new affection".

Of course, there is only and ever one affection which is worthy of that - Jesus Christ. It seems to me that this is part of what the Apostle Paul is going after in Philippians 3:7-14, the focusing on the goal, pressing for the prize, which is Christ, our very great reward.

Funny, it's almost ZEN in nature. There is strenuous effort and labor involved but it is not in white knuckling determination to conquer your sin, it is in reaching for something so much better. While the acknowledgment, confession and repentance of the sin is crucial (1 John 1), the effort must all be focused on the One who is faithful and just.

And I must say that I have found it to be very helpful.

- PuritanTim